Exclusive! Jason Badower interview part 3
House Petrelli: So in the graphic novels versus the shows, I want to know your favorite. What just feels good coming out of your pen?Jason Badower: I really like drawing Angela, actually.
HP: Really!
JB: Yeah, yeah. Cristine Rose is just... I’ve only gotten to draw her once, at the end of War Buddies. But I just think she’s a magnificent character, and she’s just stepped up a level this season. I always felt that she had almost a regal nature about her which I really enjoyed trying to capture, and her body language. Otherwise Peter’s great because he’s got all the powers, so like when you draw that sort of stuff, it’s awesome. Michael Gaydos got to draw a scene with Peter and Caitlin walking on the beach talking, and I was all (pouting voice) “I would have loved to have drawn that!” Even just the two of them walking and talking and not using any powers – I would have totally dug that.
HP: So of the characters too, just watching the show, who’s your favorite Petrelli? Not that you have to draw.
JB: (laughs) If I say Sylar, am I being contentious? (laughs) I don’t know if he actually is a Petrelli or not. I don’t know anything, I’m just guessing.
HP: Well, you’ve seen the show though, so unless she’s being metaphoric he is... but that is outside the scope of our site – ha!
JB: Exactly. Hearsay and conjecture as far as we’re concerned.
HP: (laughs)
JB: See, Nathan’s one of the tough ones to draw, because while he’s had a lot of different looks also, he’s also had a lot of personality changes to go along with those looks, and so for me his character is a lot more amorphous and transitional, even though Peter has had this incredible character arc and has changed a lot as a character, I still feel that there’s a real A-B-C-D-E... there’s a real logical string to Peter’s arc, which I feel Nathan, by these events, has been really knocked around all over the place and doesn’t have as logical a character arc, and so I find him much tougher to draw because I’m not quite sure what I’m trying to communicate with his character.
HP: That’s interesting. So you’re really kind of dipping into the... not archetype, but the essence of who the character is in order to translate that onto the paper. It’s not just a surface, “This is what his jaw looks like” sort of thing.
JB: Exactly! When I had to draw “Blackout” with Mohinder, I watched a bunch of episodes, fast forwarding just to the Mohinder bits to study his body language. Like, when he gets excited he gets really eager, and his neck cranes forward, and he leans forward... and so I’m really trying to capture that sort of body language in those scenes. So when you’re drawing a character like Nathan, I really only think that the writers and the director at the time, and, of course, Adrian Pasdar, really know where Nathan is at any given moment.
HP: I agree with your assessment of “knocked around.” I don’t know that I would have had the bravery to say that. (laughs) But yeah, they are kind of yanking his chain all the time, aren’t they!
JB: It’s a writer’s job to put a character through hell, and that’s what makes them so interesting. We don’t want their lives to be just... get up every morning and walk the dog and have breakfast, and...
HP: No, no, no.
JB: Just because Nathan’s arc hasn’t been as ordered and logical as Peter’s doesn’t make it any less brilliant, it’s just a different arc. And it’s harder for me, as an artist, to draw that, because his character is so scattered. I’m not saying it’s unplanned, I’m saying that it’s just the nature of the character. It’s not a... qualitative assessment.
HP: Have you had the opportunity to actually meet any of the actors? That would be really helpful I would imagine, to observe them in 3D and really get how they look.
JB: I’ve only met Hayden briefly once. As for the other actors... when I’m invited on set, I’m very aware that I’m a guest there. Time is money, and they’re working their asses off. I’ve seen them working like one scene... I was invited to a house that I still haven’t seen on the show [Ed: it has since appeared as “vortex man’s” house], and I’m standing in a doorway talking to Ollie and Zach [Craley] and I look through another door, and I see a guy there. And I think, “that’s weird, he looks familiar.”
HP: (laughs)
JB: So then I realize it’s Zachary Quinto, and I’m like, “wow.” And he’s talking to someone, and I’m all, “oh, okay,” so I ask Ollie and Zach, “Can I go around and have a look?” And they said, “You can go as close as you want until they throw you out.” (laughs) So I’m wandering around, enjoying seeing people, and watched Sylar and Claire and [Noah] blocking out a scene. Only one of them was in costume, the other two were just wearing what they normally wear, and it was just so great watching them block out a scene. And afterwards Ollie comes up to me and goes, “I’m so sorry that you didn’t actually see this being filmed.” And I said, “This is better than it being filmed, because no one else will ever see this performance.” And then going out and seeing it come together and the reasons why, as they all talk about it as an open dialogue – that’s a fascinating look into the creative process.
HP: I can only imagine!
JB: Sure, I could see it being filmed, but that’s just the final version. I love seeing it drafted, and drafted, and re-drafted, and figuring out how they eventually get there. And I didn’t even realize that they’d finished. It’s like there was something unconscious that just went through the room, and everyone knew they hit the point, and then everyone disappeared. I wanted to go over and say hi during the break, but literally, they all walked off and I’m like, “Where’d everyone go?” And Ollie says “Oh, they’re done.” And I’m all... “Oh... really...” (laughs) Like literally Zachary started walking off stage left where he came in... and just kept walking. I’m like, “wow... okay...” I saw him through a window disappear and go off across the parking lot, and I’m like, “...wow...!” (laughs) I expected a big “CUT!” or “Okay everyone, we’re done, see you on set in half an hour,” or some big announcement, but something just went through the room and everyone just dispersed.
HP: Huh... that’s trippy.
JB: Yeah, it is. I was ah... quite confused. (laughs)
HP: Well, I’m sure at some point you’ll get to go to some kind of a mixer or something, maybe the season wrap... I don’t know.
JB: I’m sure, but you know... for me, I really feel like I’ve met the real braintrust behind Heroes, and that’s the writers.
HP: Well sure.
JB: The writers are where the characters live, and where they’re going, and they’re the people you ask the questions to. You can ask Zachary Quinto where Sylar’s going, and he’s gonna go, “This is where I’d like Sylar to go,” or “This is a cute idea I’ve got,” but it’s the writers who know. They’re the ones who’ve planned ahead. I’m walking around the room, and I see scripts for episodes 13 and 14, and these guys are way ahead. So for me, having met and chatted with the writers and spoken to them – that’s, to me, where Heroes is. In that braintrust there.
HP: Oh, definitely. I’m not saying... because we see the actors on the screen, obviously, and connect them to the characters, so it seems like if you talk to them it’s like this magical connection. I just was thinking, for you, as a fellow fan, and also for art reference, and just for the geekasm of “OMG! I got to talk to Milo!” or whatever... (laughs) ... that it would just be a kick.
JB: It is definitely a kick to meet those guys. But it’s not something I’m losing sleep over.
HP: (laughs) No, I didn’t think that.
JB: As I said, for me, Heroes really exists in the minds of the writers. And, coming back to that earlier point, the actors become the characters, and then they go back to being themselves. Whereas the writers, their brains are always in that world. Like everybody else is just a tool and a means to communicate Tim Kring’s and the writers’ vision to the actual screen. I did get to meet Tim Kring recently.
HP: Oh, that’s right. I remember reading that someplace.
JB: Yeah, at a Nine Inch Nails concert, of all places.
HP: Yeah, what was up with that? Was that just happenstance? I mean, how could you possibly run into somebody by accident at a concert that size?
JB: It was semi-happenstance. I emailed Jim Martin and Timm Keppler, saying “guys, I need to know if you’re available for emails over the weekend because I need stuff signed off for Monday,” because the comics go live Tuesday, so everything has to be done Monday. Of course, Into the Wild was so massive, and I was running right up against the deadline every time.
HP: Oh, right, and poor Annette too. My god.
JB: Yeah, and we’re both being absolutely smashed. So Jim goes “I’m available all weekend, except Saturday night I’m going to the Nine Inch Nails concert.” I said, “My god, so am I! We should meet up.” And so we did, we met up at the concert and we had a great chat, and I said “Jim, where are you sitting?” And he said “...I don’t really know.” I said, “What do you mean? You should have a ticket like this, and it’ll tell you where you’re sitting.” And he pulls out this shiny VIP pass.
HP: Oh, shut up! (laughs)
JB: Yeah, and he says, “Well, Tim Kring and Trent Reznor are friends, and they chat on email all the time.” And I said, “What could they possibly have to talk about?” He said, “Well, when Tim decided to do Heroes Evolutions, the alternate reality game, he did some research to find out who’s done the best alternate reality game. And Trent Reznor did Year Zero, an amazing alternate reality game which I really recommend you check out. And apparently Tim got in touch with Trent and went over some ideas, they got chatting... Then Jim’s phone rings and he says “Oh, it’s Tim.” I said, “Timm Keppler? I’d really like to meet him.” He goes, “It’s Tim Kring, actually.” I said, “Wow, I’d really like to meet him,” and he says “I’ll bring him by.” So yeah, he brought Tim and his lovely wife Samantha by, and we had a quick chat because the concert was about to start, and that was great. It was quite funny, because he goes, “You look familiar,” and I said “Well, I do work for you.” (laughs) But I don’t think we expected to meet each other.
HP: Maybe he saw you in the Hana Gitelman comic.
JB: Yes. (laughs)
HP: Putting the moves on Hana.
JB: Putting the moves on Hana. I was actually gonna do that as a competition – who gets to snog Hana. But I get so many perks out of this job!
HP: “Waitaminute... I win!”
JB: Yeah, I figured I don’t get any in real life, so why not get some on the page.
HP: (laughs) Oh my god.
JB: Yeah, apparently you have to actually leave your house if you want to meet people. But I think they don’t know what they’re talking about. I’m hoping there’ll be this really hot Jehovah’s Witness that’ll come knocking and she’ll say “Do you want to talk about God?” And I’ll say “Not really, but do you want to come in?”
HP: You’ll have to convert her to the dark side and invite her into your comic book artist’s man cave.
JB: Man cave! Ye god! (laughs)
HP: (laughs) But this interview is about you and the Petrellis.
JB: Me and the Petrellis.
HP: All right. so if you could step through the TV, magical style, and meet one of the Petrellis, what would you say to them? Like... if you were to walk up to Future Peter or someone and just say, “Hey, buddy...”
JB: Probably the most useful one is that I would have liked to have met Arthur Petrelli, just so I could have drawn him properly.
HP: Yeah, well, that kind of wasn’t fair, was it.
JB: I mean, how do you draw this character that’s never been shown before?
HP: That we haven’t cast.
JB: That we haven’t cast, that we might cast one day. The biggest challenge for me was to go, “Okay. I know kids take after their parents. And Peter looks a lot like his mom. So Nathan must look a lot like his dad.” Because Nathan and Peter don’t really look a lot alike. So my rationale was that his father... even though I’m half Chinese, I still look a lot like my dad, who’s white, when he was my age. So I figured “Okay, let’s just use Adrian Pasdar as a likeness.” That would have helped my job actually, meeting him. As for the others, I don’t know if I’d want to meet either of the Peters – I’d just be... jealous. I mean, he’s got the best power on the planet, you know?
HP: Yeah, but it requires everybody else to actually have powers, because you never know, in the real world you may actually have his power but you’d never get to use it.
JB: That’s true.
HP: That would suck!
JB: Well... when I start flying, and turning invisible, and all that, I’ll let you know. (laughs) So yeah, as for the others... Nathan’s an interesting character but I find him hard to lock onto because I don’t know where his character is at the moment. Yeah... interesting.
HP: Yeah what would you say? I mean, if Future Peter showed up in my house, it’s like, what would I say to the guy? But I think about these things, I’m strange.
JB: Future Peter would make me really nervous. He’s a man quite happy to kill his own brother.
HP: No, he’s not happy to do it.
JB: He’s prepared to do it.
HP: Yeah, he’s prepared to do it. He does what he has to.
JB: Somebody like that... I know he’s bound up in the whole future everything, but still... it’s one of those lines you cross that defines who you are as a person. And then there’s the whole arc – would you call Future Peter a hero or a villain?
HP: That’s tough, because he’s doing it for what he believes is the right reason.
JB: Which is always the best villains, when you understand their motivation. For example, one of the reasons the X-Men has been such a seminal comic for ages is because it’s a metaphor for Martin Luther King, and Magneto’s a metaphor for Malcolm X. And it’s the two of them approaching the issue from two totally different points of view. And neither of them are wrong, it’s just two different ways of doing it. It was when they had Magneto start to kill people that you can go, “Okay, you’re the bad guy now. You crossed the line.”
HP: And that’s the problem I had with Sylar. I’ve felt forever that he was just way too two-dimensional, because he was just kill-kill-kill, brains-brains-brains, and it was like, okay, we’ve see this, that’s all he’s doing. What’s his motivation? Why is he so twisted? What’s going on in his head? And we’re only just starting to kind of get a little more, I think.
JB: That’s funny, because I’ve found that his desire for power is so much more compelling and interesting to me than Peter’s. Peter is just so neat and easy. For me, it’s what if someone like Peter had Sylar’s power. What does someone who’s a nurse, who would never hurt anyone let alone go through their brain do if he had that power? What if someone said to Peter, “You need to do this, you need to kill them and take their power to save the world,” would he do it? That’s interesting. That’s what Sylar’s good at. He’s like, “I’ll be that guy.” He’s just following his evolutionary imperative.
HP: But it’s a very selfish thing.
JB: It is a selfish thing. But apart from the way that special people were treated in the future episode, the rest of America looked like it was doing okay, so he’s obviously running the country with some level of skill. (laughs)
HP: Because he knows how things work. He’s able to get through problems that probably just about any other President couldn’t!
JB: That’s a really good point, isn’t it. Could he take apart America like that and see how it works? Yeah. Peter to me is almost too clean. Which is why having them brothers, Sylar and Peter, makes an incredible amount of sense to me, because they have the same power but two different means of going about it.
HP: See, I suspected since Season 1 that they were.
JB: Well, you’re well ahead of me on that one. I just thought that they were two narrative sides of the same coin.
HP: And some people are saying that maybe they’re even twins.
JB: Interesting... interesting... Again, I wouldn’t know. It just would have been more interesting to see Peter have a tougher way of getting his powers. You know? Like just having someone do a power around you and you just pick it up, I mean, I know you almost blew up New York because you couldn’t control them and stuff, but still, it’s... it’s power without knowledge, whereas with Sylar it’s going through this horrible process but actually learning the power.
HP: Right. Instead of just mimics the power. Because sometimes the power’s using Peter, because he has, I don’t want to say little control, but he gains these things and he doesn’t even know it half the time, and then it’s like “Oh, ohmigod, something’s happening,” and he’s very reactive. To everything on the show basically.
JB: It is. The closest thing I can think of is people who get very, very strong very quickly don’t know their own strength. Like someone who’s decided to hit the gym seven days a week and do all the supplements and everything like that, and in six months they’re so much stronger than they used to be, and they don’t realize their own strength. And I think that’s where Peter’s at. He’s very much the tale of “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.” I don’t think Sylar would explode uncontrollably.
HP: No. He got that, and was immediately playing with it.
JB: Yeah, he not only absorbed the power, but the person’s skill with the power also.
HP: That’s true, because he saw the inner workings of Ted’s brain and how Ted had learned... oh yeah, that’s good. I love talking about this stuff! I do have one more question from Jen, a co-conspirator of HousePetrelli, and she wants to know what the Godsend symbol means to you. And she says, “As an artist, you get to have your own interpretation!”
JB: To me it stands for everything the show stands for. What the show’s about. And that is a group of incredibly passionate, talented people getting together and creating something incredibly beautiful and intelligent and brilliant. But also the things that Heroes is involved with. Acceptance of being different. So when I wear the necklace, it represents those two things. A passion for my craft as well as acceptance and understanding of things that are different. And it’s something I get asked to draw. People come up to me with samurai swords and a gold pen and say, “Can you please draw the Godsend symbol on my sword.”
HP: Uh oh!
JB: Yeah! So that’s unusual... but cool. (laughs) I’m like, “Why don’t you do it?” And they’re like, “We want an artist to do it,” And I’m like (nervous) “Okay...?”
HP: And your connection... it’s like one of those six degrees of separation things too.
JB: That’s true.
HP: You’re special, man!
JB: (laughs) I am connected. And proud to be connected to the show. Like talking to the writers. For the first two seasons I was pretty low key, going, “Yeah, you know, I work for Heroes.” And now after seeing the first two premiere episodes I want to stand on top of buildings screaming... I mean, they’ve hit a whole new level. As a teaser, apparently, Jim Martin was telling me that Tim Kring doesn’t like to watch the first cut of the episodes. I guess it’s like... finding out if the baby has ten toes or eleven toes, and figuring out which one you have to get rid of. (laughs) But he won’t watch it, it’s too heartbreaking. So Greg Beeman and Alan Arkush watch them. And Greg had just finished watching episode nine,the first draft of it, and came into Tim’s office and said “I’ve just watched the best hour of TV that anyone’s ever done.”
HP: Oh, I think episode nine is the one Cristine Rose was saying she adores. I think that’s the one. Now I really can’t wait!
JB: I’m excited too! But all in good time. It’s odd wandering around the office and just seeing scripts laying around. It’s hard not to just pick one up and sort of flip through it. But I don’t want to know.
HP: You do, but you don’t.
JB: Yeah, I want to see when it’s all done. TV’s a collaborative process. Sure, I could read the script and that’s the writer’s initial vision, but there’s something magical that happens when the actors bring their interpretation and the director puts his slant on it, the cinematographer chooses the lighting, when the editor finally chooses the final cut, the whole thing when the soundtrack goes in...
HP: Yes, the music, to me, is key too. And we’re going to have an interview with Wendy & Lisa.
JB: I think they are more clued in to the themes and arcs and a lot of the subtle ideas going on in Heroes that a lot of us, not even the writers, are aware of.
HP: Yeah, without that soundtrack it would be a completely different show. And I don’t know that I would like it as well without that soundtrack. But I’ll talk to them about all that. What’s your next project?
JB: At the moment, Zero-G, my comic, is coming out, so that’s awesome...
HP: Is that mass distribution everywhere?
JB: Yes, yes. What’s great about the Heroes comics is that I literally finish drawing them on Monday and they’re up on Tuesday and I can read about it immediately. I drew Zero-G, coming out this October, in January last year.
HP: Wow.
JB: So yeah, it’s like a baby that I popped out and then forgot all about. (laughs) Yeah, I don’t need that baby any more, I’ve got a new baby!
HP: (laughs) So... pretty much any comic store is going to have that, and that’s from who?
JB: From Top Cow and Image.
HP: So the comic I saw at Comic-Con ’07... I have a paper Zero-G something... what is that? That’s not it?
JB: It’s the Zero-G preview, the first ten pages of the first issue. It has an interview with Alex [Zamm] and I, and some behind the scenes sketches. I’m very proud of those.
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