Exclusive! Tim Sale interview part 2!
House Petrelli: It’s funny, going to the different Comic-Con panels, and you’re on these Heroes panels, and no one ever asks you anything! And I feel a little sorry for you! (laughs)Tim Sale: Well, it is kind of funny, But I get to be up there with all those people.
HP: So just being there is...
TS: Yeah, it’s a lot of fun. And I got to see the first hour... you know, they screened the first hour...
HP: Oh, I know! I didn’t get to go this year, it just killed me!
TS: Well you’ve seen it now.
HP: Yeah, now I have.
TS: It was great to see it. I was backstage with the cast. They were showing it on monitors, and on the other side in the big room, they were showing it on the big screens, so you could hear 7000 people yelling... it was a lot of fun.
HP: (laughs) What a trip.
TS: Yeah, it was great.
HP: Right on. So will you be doing more work with... was it Milo’s production company that did... what’s the deal with Rest? He and Russ Cundiff...
TS: Well I just kind of picked this up. Milo asked me if I would do a cover, so that’s how I became involved. So I said, “Sure.” As I understand it, the project itself originated as not Milo’s idea, it was somebody else’s idea that was brought to Milo. They worked it up. Mark Powers wrote the script for the comic, and I’ve known him since the X-Men days. He was Jeph’s editor on Uncanny X-Men and so on back in the early 90s. I think in the way that these things are increasingly working, they would like to take the concept and shop it, form it, in as many ways as possible. Perhaps it could be a feature, perhaps it could be a TV show. At least a comic, and that’s what they’re focusing on now. They’re trying to have its existence in many different forms, different areas.
HP: And that’s just Rest, right?
TS: That’s just Rest.
HP: Because I know they’ve got another project, Berserker, with a different company, Top Cow.
TS: I know nothing about it. “They” meaning Milo and...?
HP: “They” meaning Milo and Russ Cundiff and his production company doing the comic. They got this Berserker idea and thought it was just the greatest thing ever, so they went over to Top Cow, and they’re doing some kind of production on that, I don’t know exactly.
TS: Well, the walls are increasingly... made of paper, right? And one thing leads into the next. Movies and TV and comics, you know, it’s all becoming one big way of getting ideas and creativity out there.
HP: Right, and the internet, and webisodes...
TS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
HP: It’s all becoming this one universe of, I don’t know... comic awesome? Because it’s being explored in ways that had never really worked before.
TS: Yep.
HP: With special effects and... yeah.
TS: It’s the kind of thing that does depend on the technical ability of making things look believable. It’s so much better than it ever has been. It doesn’t mean you don’t have to write a good story and craft the plot, and timing, and editing and all that. But it’s all about money. Not so much in comics, because people don’t make much of a living in comics. But in movies and TV, the people holding the purse strings are just concerned about money. They’re less concerned about the craft and the art of it all. It’s that kind of symbiotic relationship where those two things are both fighting each other and helping each other, and what sort of priority does one thing get, vis a vis the other thing.
HP: What’s been successful...
TS: None of it happens without money. So if something’s successful, people want to do more of it. And I think they realized that there was a lot of money to be made working off the creativity of people in comics. That there are an awful lot of creative people with a lot of ideas in comics, and now the technical ability of making things look believable in movies is there. They can really go for it.
HP: The neat vibe of combining comic book artists’ art, yours as “Isaac Mendez” in the context of the show, him being a comic book writer who could see the future and thus... it drew everybody into the common future he was seeing and what would happen... it’s that hybridization that really worked well.
TS: Yeah, and that remains unique.
HP: Yes.
TS: There isn’t anything in movies or other TV shows that does that.
HP: It’s brilliant.
TS: I don’t know for sure, but I think that was kind of decided as they went along. I’m not even entirely sure it had been decided when Tim asked me to come up to his studio. I don’t think it was there in the original outline or script. Isaac, obviously, was a character, and painting the future was part of it, but not that it would be an ongoing way of driving the plotline through the life of the series.
HP: Oh, I see.
TS: That’s not my impression. I could be wrong, but it’s not my impression that they had that concept from the very beginning.
HP: Interesting. I know some of it was kind of done on the fly. Like walking up later to Milo, Tim Kring going, “We finally figured out what Peter’s power is,” and I’m thinking to myself, “Dude, this is like episode two or three and you’re just now getting this?” (laughs) How wild!
TS: I don’t know how much Tim had in his head. Part of the process of these things always is that you have to allow it enough air to breathe and change and shift and grow, even if it’s just, “Well, I had no idea that these two people have this kind of chemistry,” like HRG and Claire.
HP: Exactly.
TS: Who knew that they would be sort of the break-out couple?
HP: Well... relationship, meaning family. Not couple couple.
TS: Well... yes yes yes. But a loving family unit with chemistry where you really cared about what was happening. You have an episode like “Company Man”...
HP: Brilliant! Bryan Fuller! Bring him back!
TS: Yep, yep. Well, he’s got his own show, so...
HP: I know... we’ve lost him to Pushing Daisies.
TS: Well, he’s an ambitious guy. He deserves to have his own show. But I basically agree, he’s a huge talent, and you could really tell the episodes he had a part in. Not just “Company Man,” but other ones. I remember being in a room when he was screening some of the young Hiro and his father scenes, and he was just giggling... just having a great time.
HP: That’s so fun
TS: And Jack Coleman is just a terrific guy.
HP: Oh, I just love his blog. Have you been reading his blog? It’s hilarious.
TS: Oh, I didn’t know he had a blog!
HP: Yeah it’s The H.R.G. Files. But it’s hilarious! He’s just got such a wit. And it’s a dry wit – I love dry wit.
TS: He’s been around a long time. And so he has... well, all actors have egos, but then all creative people have egos. I certainly do.
HP: (laughs)
TS: But he has a perspective on what his job in the universe is, right? And some of that is to kind of mentor this beautiful 18-year-old whose life could be going off the rails, but it’s not going off the rails. And whatever part of that he has, more power to him. But as far as I can tell he’s really sort of figured this thing out. He finds himself at a certain age... he was on Knot’s [Landing], he was on... it wasn’t Dallas...
HP: I want to say Dallas...
TS: Was it Dallas...?
HP: I dunno, look at his blog, it’s all on there. (laughs)
TS: Well, one of those prime time... Well, he had that as a young man, and this at a mature age... I’m not trying to make him sound old, but he’s got a really admirable sense of perspective on what’s happening.
HP: Yep. It seems like a lot of the actors are really, really nice and have their head on straight. And it’s refreshing to see that combination coming together. And a lot of the production people too. That’s what makes it really work well.
TS: Yeah. Yeah. Well, a lot of the people in production have been around. Certainly Kring has. But nobody’s had something like this. Jeph has worked on Lost and Smallville, and they certainly had their own sanity and popularity. But not like this. Nobody knew it would take off quite like this. I don’t know how people like Masi and Hayden and Milo deal with it. Milo just looks like a baby, but he’s actually 31.
HP: (laughs) You don’t actually want me to type in “he looks like a baby” do you? (laughs)
TS: Well, okay, not a “baby,” but he looks much younger than his age.
HP: Okay, there’s my edit, thank you. (laughs)
TS: You can say I think he’s pretty. Or maybe “dreamy” is the word.
HP: (laughs) Right on!
TS: But I remember that one day... I was pretty good friends with a woman named Gay Perello who was the prop master for Crossing Jordan. The entire history of Crossing Jordan. So Tim brought her over along with other production people over to the pilot. And she only worked on the pilot, once it became a series she wasn’t involved on it. I became pretty good friends with her and she only lives like a mile away from me.
HP: Oh, that’s nice!
TS: And so we worked together on the pilot, and she invited me up to Isaac’s loft one day, and that was the only day I spent in the studio. I just sort of stood back and watched people work, watched them block out the scene. Milo comes down at one point, also just to hang out, and I said, “What are you doing here?” And he said “Well, I’m supposed to be in the next scene.” But he never got in – the scene they were blocking out was when Tawny comes in and confronts Santiago, the first time we see him, and he’s destroying all the paintings, and he then explains everything. It was a pretty involved scene, and so Milo never got to film his scene that day. But he wants to be a director, he wants to be a producer, and he wants to write, as evidenced by Rest and stuff.
HP: Yeah, he’s an ambitious guy!
TS: And so he was talking about that. I guess he worked with David Semel. Milo and David had worked together on American Dreams a number of times, and I gather that David took Milo kind of under his wing, taught him some camera stuff and blocking stuff, and things like that. So that was when I learned that Milo was more than dreaming.
HP: (laughs) Not just a pretty face.
TS: An interesting and interested person, you know? He was interested in having a grounding in the craft of how these things get made. And I’m impressed.
HP: Neat. And anybody who, at the age of 31, can have light saber battles with his friends...
TS: (laughs)
HP: Hey, I gotta respect that. (laughs)
TS: Yep... yep.
HP: All right, so this is your portion of the program where you get to pimp whatever you want, including your website, upcoming projects, appearances, whatever you want to talk about – go!
TS: All right! Well, the website is TimSale1.com, but if you Google me, it’s the first thing that comes up. I am on there almost every day, I don’t have a blog, but there is a message board, and we’re a really friendly group of people who are interested in all forms of pop culture. It is not like most message boards where people are yelling and screaming.HP: Good, good. It’s not like Ain’t It Cool News talkback, huh?
TS: Or almost anything. Whether or not you’re following the sports teams, or comics, or anything like that... most of the time people just go off.
HP: Yes!
TS: No, it’s definitely not like that. It’s a very respectful thing. As I say, I’m on almost every day, so that’s a lot of fun. It’s actually a surprisingly big part of my life.
HP: It sucks you in!
TS: It does suck me in. It does.
HP: (laughs)
TS: At this time of the year I’m pretty much done with appearances. It’s an intense six months, sort of March to October.
HP: WonderCon next year?
TS: If I get invited. Well, the fact of the matter is, I get invited to way more shows than I can, or want to, attend. So I tend to not go to shows that don’t pay for me to go. I don’t mean pay me a fee, I mean give me a hotel and air fare. The reason I hadn’t been to WonderCon in a long time – actually, I hadn’t been since it was in San Francisco. I went to Oakland quite often, but that’s ten years ago or something. They hadn’t invited me, but they invited me this year, and I had a great time, and I’d love to go back. It’s a really good-sized show that focuses on comics, San Francisco’s a great place to be...
HP: Oh, I love it. City of my birth.
TS: It’s one of my favorites partly because my home town where I grew up is Emerald City, the Seattle show. It also is a great, great show. Jim Demonakos is the guy that runs it, and he’s got a really good sense of what to pay attention to and what not to pay attention to, what to try to do and what to ignore. So I highly recommend it to anybody. But all that’s next year, I don’t have anything new coming up. I’m gonna be at a place called “Comic Book Ink” in Tacoma, Washington, I’m doing a store appearance. I’m partly doing that because it’s right before Thanksgiving and I’ll get to visit my parents who are still in Seattle.
HP: Oh sure, why not? Double up your trip.
TS: Yep, yep. So there’s that. And I’m in the middle, not just with Heroes, but I’m in the middle of crunching on Captain America White.
HP: Ooh, yeah! Any spoilers there?
TS: It’s gonna take a long time to do, I’ll tell you that. The art is very involved, Jeph is very busy, I’m very busy... it really just is eating up time, and taking a long time to produce. But I’m really trying to... if not have it be the work of my career, at least have it be something I’ll be proud of forever. I mean, I always try to do that, but I’ve never done anything like this before.
HP: Really, why?
TS: Well first of all, there are a lot more characters. We’ve got Sgt. Fury and The Howling Commandos running around...
HP: And Bucky!
TS: And Captain Bucky, and the Nazi hoards... there’s an awful lot of stuff to draw, right?
HP: (laughs) Right!
TS: So I’ve never done anything like that, I’ve never done anything like a period piece before. I’m finding my way. I’m pretty comfortable with it now, but I’m finding my way with what kind of balance I need between kind of fanatical research on one end, and making s*** up on the other end...
HP: (laughs)
TS: And that usually involves immersing myself in as much research as possible, and then letting it go when I get the feel of it right. So there’s that, but it’s also much more reality-based than a lot of the other s*** that I do, and I take it very seriously, certainly with the US in a war now, and potential of other ones happening, I take that seriously. It’s all well and good to talk about “the best generation” and feel as though fighting the Nazis is nothing anybody would argue against or anything like that. I mean, that’s fine, but people still died. So I take that seriously and try to... actually, my two big touchstones are some of the 50s war comics that Jack Kirby did before the Marvel work. He did one called Foxhole and there were about a half dozen issues. If you go to any of the websites that have a library of comic book covers and type that in, they’re just incredibly powerful.
HP: Ooh yeah, I gotta do that.
TS: Yeah, yeah. Comic Browser is I think the best, but there are other ones too.
HP: Neat. I saw that big Kirby compendium at the bookstore the other day, and it just looked fantastic! I gotta get that.
TS: The Fantagraphics one?
HP: I think so, it’s got that giant cover on it that’s like a big close-up... it’s been months now since I’ve seen it. It was like a complete history of everything he’s ever done, and it just looks fantastic.
TS: The Fantagraphics one is softcover, but it’s quite large, like an old record album size. And it has quite a few drawings that he did in letters back to his wife Roz. He was in the Battle of the Bulge.
HP: Wow, gee.
TS: So there’s that. But the other thing that I look a lot at is the Harvey Kurtzman EC Comics war books, Two-Fisted Tales and Frontline Combat. And they were written and edited specifically by Harvey Kurtzman, he just did the war stories. He was a writer and artist as well, but he didn’t do that very often. But he wrote almost all of them and laid them out, and they were very respectful of the troops and very anti-war at the same time. And they covered all wars, so it would be Revolutionary War, and Korean War, and World War II, and just jump around. It was all US-based. The other one is that Warren put out a book called Blazing Combat in the 60s, and it only had four issues, but each one of the issues had a Frank Frazetta cover.
HP: Ooh!
TS: Archie Goodwin writing, and others... he was the one that wrote Creepy and Eerie and when they were really in their heyday. Magazine-sized black and white, like that. So anyway, there’s a history of these things that I draw on.
HP: For Cap White.
TS: For Cap White, yeah... an approach, really. How do I want to come at this?
HP: Yeah, yeah... I always love to know how people work, it’s so interesting to me.
TS: Me too! I ask people about it all the time. Where are you drawing from, what are your inspirations.
HP: Neat. So any parting thoughts before I let you go?
TS: I think that’s about it, I gotta get back to drawing, actually.
HP: What are you working on?
TS: Cap White.
HP: Speaking of! (laughs) Well fabulous, I appreciate it very much. Have a great afternoon, and have fun on Cap!
TS: Thanks.
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